Deep Water, Big Fish

[raffensg64]

Gents,

I need some help, explanations, theories.....whatever you've got. In the spring seasons of 2003-2005, I was often times able to pick up large fish in shallow water by way of chironomids. Very few dinks. Amber, Medical, W. Medical and Coffeepot were lakes that I frequented. However, during the past three seasons, I've increasingly noticed that shallow water is producing mostly smaller, recent plants.

This year is no different. For example, while fishing Amber a week ago, the south end shallows yielded in excess of a dozen fish, only one of which exceeded 14". When that bite ended, my partner and I moved to deep water (25-26') and fished chironomids vertical with full sink lines. This technique yielded nearly 20 fish to net, only 3-4 of which were under 14", with most running 17-19". All fish took in the bottom three feet of water. Another example is W. Medical from five days ago. In two hours of fishing, I got 20 fish on chironomids under an indicator, with only one over 13".....I've never caught so many 10" fish at one time in that lake! Moving to deep water and fishing deep then yielded a dozen fish, most of which which were 16-19 rainbows, with a fat 22" brownie thrown in for good measure, and only a couple dinks. Once again, all fish caught within a few feet of the bottom.

Just two examples listed, but I've seen it a lot the past couple years.

Where are the big fish that used to stalk the shallows? Do they prefer to stay away from the plants that usually favor shallow water? Is it just a timing thing? Coincidence? Maybe the larger fish feel more secure in deeper water?

Your thoughts?

[fishaholictaz]

I believe that the stockers will add competition for the big fish making them move to other areas and this time of year with so many stockers they get to the baits first#-o I have luck shallow usually in a couple months when the stockers start to disperse more through out the lake leaving more water that the big fish don't need to compete for. But right now I try to stay away from the schools of stockers! I had a spot that was giving me hold over cutthroat every trip but after a heavy stocking the smaller fish took over that area and I couldn't find a big fish to save my life

Tight lines,
TAZ

[Rooscooter]

Here's a theory based on some experience and discussions with a couple of fish biologists over the years:

I have been told that recent plants come from pools/pens at the hatcheries that are between 2 and 5' deep. They are "pre-programmed" to this depth so to speak. They tend to stay at that depth until they get acclimated to the natural environment. The "holdovers" are used to feeding in the entire environment so they tend to look for food where they can find it rather than looking for it from the surface only.

As for finding larger fish in past years in the shallows.....maybe the stocking included more "brood stock" and had larger fish that the typical plants.

In Amber, Badger, Fan and Fish lakes over the last few years I have always found more of the recent plants near the launch and at the surface. This was evident last week at Fish. My fish finder was showing a lot of fish at or near the surface. As I fished that area all I got was 8 to 10 inch Brookies. After I moved to the slot along the East edge my finder was showing a lower concentration of fish in 20+ feet of water. Working this area produced a few 16" and over Tigers and Brookies. So I am seeing the same thing.

I keep journals for each year that I fish (going back to 1993-yikes!!) In looking at these for a couple of lakes that I fish early in the season I am noticing that I am catching smaller fish in general early in the season and in some of my cryptic notes I seem to catch bigger fish in deeper waters.

This is one theory I hope there to hear others.

Good topic.

Tight Lines!!

[dbk]

I was reading through the old posts and came across this one, which intrigued me so I thought I would "dredge" it up and see if others might have some additional thoughts to share. The issue of water depth in relation to the size of fish was broached, with the experience this year being different from years past in that bigger fish were not being caught in the shallows (I assume in less than 10 ft of water), but rather that more recent plants were being caught there, likely because they have not yet acclimated themselves to their new environment and may prefer the shallower water. Setting aside the depth preferences of the "stockers", there must have been some environmental change in the trout's habitat that kept the bigger fish from occupying the "shoals" or shallow water areas that often constitute the best places for trout to feed given that the largest concentrations of invertebrate life can typically be found there, although its true feeding is not necessarily always the the chief 'concern' for trout under certain circumstances, i.e. if water temps are not conducive they will seek more optimal water before feeding if its available, or feed less often when temps are less optimal and inactivity sets in. Safety can also be an issue, so shallow, clear water on a day with little cloud cover and bright sun may discourage some fish on some from feeding in such areas, especially if overhead predators (i.e. various birds) are abundant in the area. Some lakes may not have good "shoals", but this seems not to apply to the lakes being discussed in this thread.

The experience of bigger fish-deeper water this year does not necessarily hold true for year's past. As such, it seems as if something must have changed to keep the bigger fish out of the shallower water where they have been caught in the past, or else it was just a "fluke" or some type of anomaly this year that bigger fish were not being taken as consistently in the shallows as year's past. Of course all this seems to apply only to the first few months of the season before the weather gets hot and water temps are elevated to the point that fish begin to seek out the "thermocline", which often means they are going to be holding quite deep. I suppose its one thing to catch bigger fish in 20-25+ feet of water in late July as opposed to late March, when the shallow water warms first, and is typically the most "active" area in respect to insect life For example, early spring marks the time when chironomid larvae begin their migrations from the deep water to the shallows, and often in that first month after ice out you can take fish consistently by fishing "bloodworms" in areas of a lake where these insects are congregating during this migration period. I have no experience to draw from this year, and I trust the experiences of the guys who have fished this year, but the largest trout I have caught in general are not taken from really deep water (anything over 20 ft). I have most consistently caught larger fish in water 5-15 ft in depth in years past, primarily because these areas I believe offer the best habitat (generally speaking) for trout to feed during the first part of the season (and the early to mid fall period right before winter sets in). MANY factors can push fish into the depths, and on many/most lakes chironomids can be abundantly found in water 20+ feet, so their is food there, and big fish are certainly caught there.

I suppose the "bigger fish-deeper water" theory may be true under certain conditions, but in general I would hesitate to adopt it as a "rule", though the experience of others on this forum(one of whom I fish with fairly regularly and trust his knowledge of stillwater flyfishing) might suggest otherwise. Right now the point is probably 'moot' seeing we are in the throes of summer and the fish have generally migrated to the deeper water, but I found it to be an interesting point of discussion that I was hoping to hear others chime in on. Thanks to those who brought this thead up and contributed. Not sure how I missed it the first time around.

Dave

[Anglinarcher]

I find that early in the year, say November to March, the bigger fish dominate the shallows and smaller fish are deeper. I find that as the water starts to warm, the smaller fish dominate the shallows (at least for trout) and the larger fish go deeper.

I think it is as much a preferred temperature thing as anything. Of course I agree with the planters sticking to the shallows for some time theory, but even in lakes with natural re-production, I still find the smaller fish are shallower during the warm months.

I believe that the smaller fish tolerate the warm water better than larger fish. I think that larger fish tolerate the colder water better. So, with the smaller fish being accustomed to shallow hatchery conditions, and tolerating warmer conditions, well, you know the rest.

But, this does not explain the big fish you found in the shallows in the past. I have noticed that small fish are eating everything they can find to grow fast. They either grow fast, or get eaten. So competition plays a lot in this. I have seen big bass and trout that seemed to ignore offerings while the smaller fish would pound our offerings. When I mean seen, I mean seen. I often fly fish in waters where I observe some nice fish (mostly in MT and ID) setting in prime lies, and getting an offering to them without the smaller fish getting it can be a problem. But, when the small fish are not there, the bigger fish can and are caught.

I suggest that there are probably other factors as well, and if you take all that we have commented on, we probably have not even scratched the surface.