Reason for reopening

[jonb]

Im pretty sure damming of the rivers, dikes , and roads, caused the most damage to the steelhead and salmon runs. That and over fishing in the early part of the 20th century. So why arent people suing the people who built the dams?
Another thought is if these steelhead are so important, why fish for them at all. Why not just shut it down entirely, not because wild/hatchery fish intermingle, but strictly because they are threatened in the wild. It kind of bothers me that people beat the steelhead drum about how important and sacred they are, and then go hook one in the face and hall it in. Yeah sure your trying to catch hatch fish and thats legal and fine, but natives get caught accidently. If its so important as to argur over intermingling of wild/hatch steelhead, then it probably would be pertanent to just leave them alone altogether. Thats my stance.

[fear_no_fish]

I might be opening a can of worms but I wouldn't mind seeing hatchery steelhead spawn. Eventually they become wild steelhead. Eventually their genes will strengthen

That is not what we want. This is why steelhead plants are being cut back on every river. A wild fish spawning with a hatchery brat on gravel doesn't make a true wild steelhead. The genes and instincts are lost in the process of hatching fish out of the wild. Hatchery fish should only be spawned in a hatchery or with your favorite egg cure PERIOD.

Ummmmmm, How to put this with out sounding insensitive. OK I see no way. For the last 50 years or so the hatchery Steelheads have been returning to their hatcheries and to the spawning grounds and spawning with the Nates. I guess what one could say is it's a little late to shut the gate, the cows already in the garden. Not only do the steel interbreed with the brats but they also breed with the resident bows. I guess what we got going on is a good old fashioned ménage à trois. Nature finds a way. As for loosing instinct, I don't think so, there have been quite a number of studies documenting the return of domestic animals to the wild, it only takes a generation and with interbreeding, less. One group heavily studied is a pack of domestic dogs gone wild in Detroit and of course we have the large number of pigs in every state that have gone wild. I see no reason to believe that fish would not follow the same path. And it's been happening for the 50 years or so. As far as policy goes, as usual the State has "hand picked" their consultants to give them the answers they're looking for. The State wants to get out of the hatchery business, it's no secret. So what do they do? Hire consultants to say the hatchery escapees are crowding out the nates. If this was so, one would think after 50 years the nates would have be wiped out. Steelhead plants are being cut back because the State wants to get out of the hatchery business. When they do the hatchery funding from your license fees goes right to the general fund where it can be controlled by congress. State wins, steelhead and fishermen lose.

I'm not saying hatchery fish are the downfall of wild fish. But if it hurts the fish then it hurts the fish.
Danny you brought up a great point. Some rivers are obviously doing better then others. Thats why occupy skagit is a great idea. A basin by basin management system. Some rivers might have a bigger hatchery inbreeding problem then others and need the help while other rivers can handle hatchery fish.
If you were to ask me nets and ocean conditons (food and predators) are the biggest factors in fish numbers though.

[Bodofish]

Got to agree, the nets and food for the fish are in my opinion the number one cause for the runs demise. On any river. One of the other biggies that's just coming to light and in the overall scheme of things a relative new comer and a late one, metallic brake pads. A recent new comer to the game and a pretty rough one for the fish. It turns out the copper in the brake pads that keeps them from squeaking is extremely harmful to the fishes homing systems. The copper ruins their sense of smell making nearly impossible for them to find their way back to the rivers they came from. It only takes a minute amount of copper in the water to do the trick. When you have your brakes redone make sure only ceramic pads are used. The auto parts industry has begun phasing out metallic brake pads but there are still a lot of them in the pipeline. Help make sure they don't get used. Ask for ceramic.

[natetreat]

I'm not saying hatchery fish are the downfall of wild fish. But if it hurts the fish then it hurts the fish.

This is dangerous logic. Hatchery impact on fish is still up for debate. There are TREMENDOUSLY greater impacts to the health of our fisheries, even if the worst case scenarios are in fact true. Netting, salt conditions, habitat destruction, dams... These all impact our runs more than hatchery fish by a factor of 20. This logic is what Wild Fish conservancy and other big money environmental groups are using to to shut down our fisheries. The legislature and WDFW embrace it because it costs them less money. Without hatcheries, there won't be any steelheading. That's a fact. If you're okay with that, by all means, let them take away our fish. It's happening one river at a time, starting with the Cowlitz. Check the fish counts at the dam to see what I'm talking about.

[Bodofish]

I'm not saying hatchery fish are the downfall of wild fish. But if it hurts the fish then it hurts the fish.

This is dangerous logic. Hatchery impact on fish is still up for debate. There are TREMENDOUSLY greater impacts to the health of our fisheries, even if the worst case scenarios are in fact true. Netting, salt conditions, habitat destruction, dams... These all impact our runs more than hatchery fish by a factor of 20. This logic is what Wild Fish conservancy and other big money environmental groups are using to to shut down our fisheries. The legislature and WDFW embrace it because it costs them less money. Without hatcheries, there won't be any steelheading. That's a fact. If you're okay with that, by all means, let them take away our fish. It's happening one river at a time, starting with the Cowlitz. Check the fish counts at the dam to see what I'm talking about.

AKA The State wants to get out of the hatchery business. Their ploy was to hire consultants hand picked to provide the information they need to shut them down.

PS don't use metallic brake pads.

[natetreat]

I'm not saying hatchery fish are the downfall of wild fish. But if it hurts the fish then it hurts the fish.

This is dangerous logic. Hatchery impact on fish is still up for debate. There are TREMENDOUSLY greater impacts to the health of our fisheries, even if the worst case scenarios are in fact true. Netting, salt conditions, habitat destruction, dams... These all impact our runs more than hatchery fish by a factor of 20. This logic is what Wild Fish conservancy and other big money environmental groups are using to to shut down our fisheries. The legislature and WDFW embrace it because it costs them less money. Without hatcheries, there won't be any steelheading. That's a fact. If you're okay with that, by all means, let them take away our fish. It's happening one river at a time, starting with the Cowlitz. Check the fish counts at the dam to see what I'm talking about.

AKA The State wants to get out of the hatchery business. Their ploy was to hire consultants hand picked to provide the information they need to shut them down.

PS don't use metallic brake pads.

Bingo.