ID-ing Brooks and 'Bows

Geoffrey Ring · Post by **Geoffrey Ring** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:16 pm

I've been fly fishing in the Entiat watershed for a few years now, and now I'd like to get a bit more educated on the fish that I've been catching. Yes, I do know the difference between a Brook and a Rainbow trout, but I don't know the differences between the different strains of each kind of fish. Just the other day I was reading about WA State Red-Band Rainbows (vs Kamloops or Mt. Whitney) and wondered how they knew, but it didn't strike me as too important until I landed a good sized bow in a beaver pond today and wondered what exactly I held in my hands.

So how do I know? Is there some fancy way to tell like counting spots, or should I be content knowing its a rainbow cuz that's as close to ID-ing it as I'll get?

Also, I was curious about Brook trout as well. The regulation book specifically says 'Eastern Brook trout', but aren't they supposed to be native to the West coast? Where are those Brook trout?

Oh! Hahaha, one more Q. =P
Where does one find Brook trout in small streams with large populations of Rainbows? I haven't caught a single Brookie this year and I'm kind'a getting worried... =/

That's pretty much it, thanks for reading/thinking about/answering!

Jake Dogfish · Post by **Jake Dogfish** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:48 pm

Brook trout are non-native.

Rooscooter · Post by **Rooscooter** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:52 pm

It is my understanding that Brook Trout are native to the East U.S. mountain streams and rivers. Bull Trout (Dolly Varden) are native to our area as are Lake Trout and several of the Cutthroat varieties. All of the others are either transplanted (Brown and Brooke) or hybrids (Tiger Trout, Cutbow and Splake for example).

The Brook Trout is actually a Char.

Rainbow Trout are native to the Pacific Ocean tributaries including the most rivers and streams west of the rocky mountains as well as most of Asia, Central and South America. There are several "Sub-Species" of Rainbow Trout that have evolved in some of the more isolated water ways. Golden Trout, Red Band Rainbows, Sacramento Golden.....and the list go on. There is even one sub-species that lives in Lake Crescent only, the "Beardslee Rainbow.

I can tell the difference between the Golden varieties and the "regular" ones having caught both. I have caught "Red Band" Rainbows in the Spokane river but I don't think they look much different than other Rainbows except that they tend to have a little more pronounced red stripe. I have caught "Apache and Chilean Rainbows that appear much different than the typical hatchery. If I were fishing water with both "Red Band" and typical (or hatchery) Rainbows I'm not sure I could tell the difference or not.

There are several variety of the Cutthroat as well. West slope, Sea Run (Coastal), Lahontan and several more. Identifying them all is nearly impossible.

I think the only way to know for sure is with a microscope and a blood sample.

Tight Line!

swedefish4life1 · Post by **swedefish4life1** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:28 pm

THE GREAT 4:-$ TROUSTERS:-$

:bounce: :chef:

(CUTTHROAT)= 13 REMAINING SUBSPECIES IN THERE RESPECTIVE RANGES
BEST YELLOWSTONE DRAINAGES INCLUDING THE CLACKS F.

WESTSLOPES INHABIT THE COLUMBIA, UPPER- AND UPPER SNAKE AND MISSOURI RIVER DRAINAGES
SPINNERS, CLASSIC FLYS LIKE THE ADAMS FAMILY.

(BROOK)

THE BROOKIE IS REALLY A CHAR THAT IS NATIVE TO EASTERN WATERS.
THESE NATIVES SUFFERED FROM 19 CENTURY LOGGING AND DISPLACEMENT BY STOCKED BROWNS AND RAINBOWS

BEST WATERS FOR A GIANT NATE BROOKIE NORTHWESTERN ONTARIOS, ALBANY RIVER WATERSHED

SPINNERRS, PLUGS, DRY FLIES AND BRIGHT STREAMERS STRIPPED IN FASTER SEAMS.

(RAINBOW)

THESE AROBATIC TROUT ARE NATIVE TO IDAHO WASHINGTON, OREGON, CALIFORNIA , ALASKA, BC AND PLANTED ALL OVER THE GLOBE AND INCLUDE NOW 15 SUBSPECIES

WILD POPULATIONS NOW OCCUR IN EASTERN RIVERS AND THE MIDWEST AND MORE!!

THE LARGEST WITHOUT INCLUDING STEELHEAD ARE FOUND IN ALASKA COPPER AND NAKNEK RIVERS THANKS TO SALMON EGGS AND DECAYING SALMON IN THESE GREAR RIVERS AND THE KENAI:-$

SALMON EGGS BEHIND A SPINNER BLADE, WORMS POWER BAIT, SPOONS, STREAMERS IN MOVING WATERS AND TROLLING MUCH AND MANY MORE!!!!!!!

(BROWN)

THIS TOUGH GERMAN DESENT HAS DEPLACED POPULATIONS OF NATIVE TROUT ALL OVER THEW GLOBE AS WELL AND MANY HAVE GIVEN THE BROWNIE OF SAVING COLD WATERS FISHING IN PARTS OF USA.

THE BEST YELLOWSTONE, MADSION, PERE MARQUETTE RIVERS SOME OF THE BEST BROWNIE SYSTEMS AND THE EAST COAST HAS MANY AS WELL!!

WHERE BAIT IS OK WORMS, HOPPERS, ROOSTER TAILS, VIBRAX SPINNERS BLACK BUNNEY STREAMERS WORK SWELL IN DEEPER SLOWER POOLS!!!

TIGHT LINES FISH ON

YES THE POLLY DOLLIES8-[ CHAR[-x AND MANY OTHERS WORKING THE MAIN 4](*,) :thumright

:viking:

Geoffrey Ring · Post by **Geoffrey Ring** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:27 pm

Sweet, thnx. I guess I posted that a bit prematurely, since a while afterward I found about Brook Trout being from the other side of the States. But thanks non the less.

I'll stop worrying about what exactly I catch and be happy with broader categories. Maybe I'll start uber-ID-ing insects instead. Hmm, yes that will be much easier XD

So for the third time, thank ya'll for yer input.

Anglinarcher · Post by **Anglinarcher** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:06 am

Geoffrey Ring wrote:Sweet, thnx. I guess I posted that a bit prematurely, since a while afterward I found about Brook Trout being from the other side of the States. But thanks non the less.

I'll stop worrying about what exactly I catch and be happy with broader categories. Maybe I'll start uber-ID-ing insects instead. Hmm, yes that will be much easier XD

So for the third time, thank ya'll for yer input.

Be a little careful still. Brookies look somewhat like Bull Trout, native and on the threatened species list. If it kind of looks like a Brookie, but does not have worm like markings in the dorsal fin and sides, it may very well be a Bull.

sharpshooter223 · Post by **sharpshooter223** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:21 pm

Rooscooter wrote: There are several "Sub-Species" of Rainbow Trout that have evolved in some of the more isolated water ways. Golden Trout, Red Band Rainbows, Sacramento Golden.....and the list go on.

golden trout arent rainbows and arent native either. golden trout are their own species from somewhere in the southwest. there is a golden variety of rainbow that is a genetic rarity, i think its just an albino rainbow.

Rooscooter · Post by **Rooscooter** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:35 pm

sharpshooter223 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote: There are several "Sub-Species" of Rainbow Trout that have evolved in some of the more isolated water ways. Golden Trout, Red Band Rainbows, Sacramento Golden.....and the list go on.
golden trout arent rainbows and arent native either. golden trout are their own species from somewhere in the southwest. there is a golden variety of rainbow that is a genetic rarity, i think its just an albino rainbow.

The Rainbow Trout is classified as Oncorhynchus mykiss
The Golden Trout is classified as Oncorhynchus mykiss aguabonita

It is a Sub-Species and it is native to parts of the Southwest and California. They are planted in many alpine lakes in Idaho and Montana.

The "Baja California Trout" or Oncorhynchus mykiss nelsoni is believed to be a "decedent" of the Golden.

The other two Trouts native to the Southwest are the Apache Trout which is classified as Oncorhynchus apache is also the State Fish of Arizona and the Gila Trout Oncorhynchus gilae and are not classified as related directly to the Rainbow (notice that the "mykiss" is missing from the classification)

I have caught all of these types of Trout in California and Arizona and they are quite beautiful.

These fish are all classified as Oncorhynchus which means "Pacific", but only the ones with "Mykiss" are Rainbow Trout and its sub-species. The DNA tells the story.

Wow......I thought 2 years of College Biology was a waste!!

UPDATE: I have found a good on-line reference for this subject:
http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/S ... lue=161989

I have compared this reference to my "The Kingdom of Animals" reference and there are a few discrepancies (or updates?) but they mostly correlate.

Tight Lines!

Geoffrey Ring · Post by **Geoffrey Ring** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:46 pm

Awesome! Thnx for that site, brushan! I'll have to find the "Native Trout of Western North America" book that it cites.
And ya, I memorized the page in the reg book that describes the differences between brookies and bull/dollies. Glad to see that the concern is there tho ;)

Man I love fishing^^)))

edit: I found another cool site that also talks about sub-species and all that whatnot. Enjoy!
http://www.nativetroutflyfishing.com/sitemap.htm

Northwest Fishing Reports

ID-ing Brooks and 'Bows

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