The Dog and Pony show

[Fish-N-Fool]

Did anyone from here go to the Usk meeting?

[YellowBear]

This is the same Dog and Pony show that I have seen many times over the years from the WDFW.
Now they will add the Pike to there list along with the other warmwater species.
They cannot eradicate them but they can stunt the population to a point that anglers won't fish for them.
Studies have shown that when small fish spawn they produce small offspring.

[River-haven]

First, I want to say that I appreciate what the "Pikey, Pikey" forum members and the Musky Club have done to bring attention to this issue. Keep it up!

I attended the Usk meeting on Thursday night with a friend and it was formatted much the same way as the Spokane meeting (no open question and answer period). That's unfortunate as I feel open discussions are more revealing! There were about 25-30 civilians there and about a dozen agency biologists from both WDFW and the Tribe. I think the attendence was down from last year because people are getting tired of the same old story and more importantly because they're not being listened to. The agency folks have their minds made up and will not listen to reason.

I feel they're downplaying their true intentions by using terms like "survey" and "suppression." Let's be honest and call a "spade a spade!" I suggested to a couple of them that they rename the "Pike Suppression Plan" the "Pend Oreille River Pike Eradication Project." After all, I had two different biologists tell me last year that if they had a button to push which would remove every pike in Box Canyon Reservoir, they'd do it in a heart beat. So, all this discussion about managing, surveying, and suppression is all for this one goal. They focused on their three pronged approach for pike control: fishermen, fishing derbys, and gill netting. Well, I for one, will not participate in any pike "suppression" project that includes gill nets. I will release every fish (except any tablefare) I catch!!!!

Last year, according to their charts, they netted, shocked and killed 1213 pike through two efforts; the SPIN Survey and the Pilot Removal Project. Unfortuately, their nets are extremely effective on the large pike and allow the small pike to pass. I've seen the nets in the bays and sloughs during during the spring spawning period when the biggest pike are most vulnerable. So, their efforts are resulting in a disproportionate population favoring the smaller fish (ie. the ones that are juviniles). They said if left unchecked, eventually we'd end up with a reservoir full of "hammer handles." I suggested to them that their intensive netting efforts are mechanically creating a population of "hammer handles." I've lived on the river for 13 years and I say that because since 2001, when I caught my first Pend Oreille River pike, and the years following I had quality fishing with frequent encounters with 12 lb plus fish. I didn't catch as many but, the ones I caught were "nice" fish. But, in the last 3-4 years I've seen the quantity of pike increased but the quality (i.e. trophies) declined every year.

I think we'd all like to work together with the WDFW, however, they won't listen to us. I'm sure that fishermen both "catch and release" and meat fishermen caught more than 1213 pike last year but many were released. If they were willing to allow us (fishermen) to reach their number goals they would: 1) save a lot of resources in the way of manpower, wages, and equipment; 2) it would definitely make anglers accountable and to feel they're involved and helping to control populations; 3) it would serve to repair the distrust anglers currently have of the WDFW; and finally 4) it would make for a unified effort (anglers & WDFW). If we, as a group, agreed to catch and keep all fish below say 26" and release or keep anything larger than 26" we would be able to achieve their harvest goals while at the same time keeping and maintaining a "quality" fishery. I think most anglers (if asked) would agree to record their catches by number, weight, and length and at the end of the year or through creel surveys turn in their fish catch logs thus providing the biologists the information they desire. These numbers would include all fish including those released.

Regarding tournaments....would the Musky Club be willing to sponsor tournaments with similar rules in effect? I've suggested this before but it fell on deaf ears...why not have tournaments and derbys incorporating prizes/awards/recognition to the most fish/boat under 26" rather than the biggest fish. Maybe you could do both?? Again, I'm not interested in helping eradicate the pike but if WDFW would be willing to work together I'll do my part to reduce the numbers.

Well, enough of this....my blood pressure is going up again!

[Fish-N-Fool]

Hey Don,
nice to see you figured out how to post. I was about to post your email you send to me here but I see you got R done . lol
Hope we can hook up and go do some pike fishing sometime here this year.
Rick

[muskyhunter]

Hi Rick,
Just wondering what kind of ideas did you bring to the "dog and pony show"? Are you for a slot limit? Whats your plan man to save those northerns ? And don't piggyback off of the 2 Marks okay? Gotta go put some new line on my reels, adios amigo !

[Fish-N-Fool]

Hi Rick,
Just wondering what kind of ideas did you bring to the "dog and pony show"? Are you for a slot limit? Whats your plan man to save those northerns ? And don't piggyback off of the 2 Marks okay? Gotta go put some new line on my reels, adios amigo !

Well I just got home from the WDFW meeting that I openly call the "Dog and Pony show" LOL, on the future of Pike in the P.O. River. I was a farce to say the least. They did a presentation at first where they wouldn't take any questions for about the 30 mins. or so, although I still got in a few zingers. Then they had 5 of what I would call "Story Telling Booths", and they called them "Learning Centers" to answer questions on different topics. That was intentional I think to keep the crowd at bay. so they didn't have to get into an open discussion of the facts.
I asked some pointed questions and got veg or I don't know responses to most. One Question I asked repeatedly to many of the WDFW officials there is why they have not done any studies in the Boundary Res. None had a real answer. I told them about a guy I know that fishes for pike up in Metilene and that they already have a large breeding population of Pike there already of which I got the 3 monkeys response.


That said they See no evil, Hear no evil and Speak no evil. They didn't seam to care about the Pike in Boundary Res. and actually told me that by killing off the Pike in Box Canyon it would also rid the Boundary Res of Pike ????????? WHAT?????? He lead me to believe that without any management in the Boundary Res of any kind, the fish will just keel over and die when their relatives upstream are caught. Hard to believe this fish biologist could even say this let alone believe it to be true.


I also called them on some of the misinformation and down right lies they have been telling in there so called press releases. All I got there was, he guessed the reporter make a mistake when they typed up the story. I also told them I would not support any of their kill required Pike tournaments and that I will no longer harvest any pike no matter what size it is. I hope that my fellow true Sportsmen will fallow this lead. I did tell them I would support good management of the P.O river with a catch and release regulation for any fish over 30" and a mandatory keep for fish under 26" all of which all fell on the deaf monkeys ears.
What they do plan to do it gill net them to almost non existence from River bend to Ashenfelter bay. To which I told them I go into Ashenfelter bay at 65 mph and I might not be able to stop in time to keep from running over their net. LOL
So the jest of what I got out of the meeting is the Pike fishing in the P.O. is gonna suck for the most part from now on once they start gill netting. So enjoy it while you can guys cause it anit gonna be around for long.

Here is my original post with underlined areas that if you had read it would have answered your questions.
I will add that I told them gill netting in Box Canyon Dam was a total waste of time and taxpayers dollars if they just ignore the Fish in the Boundary Res. If the reason they are gill netting is to keep the fish from getting into the lower Columbia then gill netting in Box Canyon just doesn't make any sense, which most of us know that's not the real reason at all.

Oh I also asked the Indians how much they were getting paid to do the gill netting which they refused to answer.

[muskyhunter]

okay..but that was someone elses' idea. A friend of mine came up with that idea a couple years ago when he fished with M.Divens on the Pend 3 years ago now. I also supported the slot limit. Basically the same as you have with only keeping one fish over 40". It really didnt fall to deaf ears they listened (the bios) but obviously the DFW made their decision. In a perfect world what would your scenerio be? If just a slot limit is what you think works then I'm good with that too.
As for as the gill nets. I thought the tribe has the nets? No ? If the tribe has the nets no tax payer $$$ there right? And they did all the netting and the DFW just was observing then again I don't think your tax dollars werent being used all that radically right. Plus, if you live in Idaho none of your tax $$$ would be involved right? Somehow sometime though a fish will get into the Columbia River. And it might be a musky! lol see ya, Todd

[Fish-N-Fool]

The Indians are getting paid to gill net the fish and its not just a little, but I couldn't find out just how much. I asked but no one would tell me any figures.
But that is how our dollars are getting spent. It comes from the feds in fees they collect from the power companies and spend on whatever they see fit like paying the Indians to gill net and also they plan to built some fish ladders at some of the dams. More money wasted as the fish ladders will not help IMHO. The one thing I know for sure now is they have their minds made up and nothing we say or do with make them change their minds about Pike. Just like WDFW is doing by trying to save the Bull Trout in the P.O. River, we are beating a dead horse.

[Fish-N-Fool]

Somehow sometime though a fish will get into the Columbia River. And it might be a musky! lol see ya, Todd

If you wanted to do a bucket stocking program I wouldn't complain.

[YellowBear]

A booth at the Big Horn Show might be a good place for a petition on this subject.

[AJ's Dad]

One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread was the use of the "R" word at the meeting.

I'm not saying that they are going to do this, but they did mention that they have discussed the possibility of using "Rotenone" as a control, I mean, removal method.

Really? Talk about bycatch. Let's see how many non pike get "Removed" if they go that direction.

[Lucius]

One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread was the use of the "R" word at the meeting.

I'm not saying that they are going to do this, but they did mention that they have discussed the possibility of using "Rotenone" as a control, I mean, removal method.

Really? Talk about bycatch. Let's see how many non pike get "Removed" if they go that direction.

Wow, if they are talking poison, where are they getting the money???? That stuff is not cheap and generally not recommended on large bodies of water. Take a look at Davis lake in California...pike found a way. Why would they do that as well any way, the pike will continue to migrate down the clark fork.... Dog and Pony show definitely hit the nail on the head!

[AJ's Dad]

Lucious, I was going to laugh when I read the part where you said where are they getting the money. LOL then I saw that you read the other thread that shows where the money will come from. 10 MILLION DOLLARS in ten years to kill off the pike in the POR!! Now that's tragic.

[Lucius]

Lucious, I was going to laugh when I read the part where you said where are they getting the money. LOL then I saw that you read the other thread that shows where the money will come from. 10 MILLION DOLLARS in ten years to kill off the pike in the POR!! Now that's tragic.

Check out this article about lake Davis. They spent $9.2 Million Dollars the first time to ride pike of a lake that is only 4000 acres and then another $16.2 million after it didn't work as a last ditch effort. POR is at least 13,000...more than triple the size of Davis lake. Also if you look at how many they removed....65,000 pike.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/us/12pike.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also based on a little research to Rotenone the whole Box Canyon Reservoir saying the lake is 13,000 acres with an average depth of 20' at $50 per gallon (don't know the exact price going off the below website) it would cost $13,000,000 to Rotenone the whole lake.

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/rotenone.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AJ's Dad]

Please remember, I said they only mentioned discussing rotenone as one potential option. From what I have read, a little Rotenone goes a long way. My guess is that they won't ever use it in the POR because of the fish that would be killed as casualties of their war.

[A9]

Somehow sometime though a fish will get into the Columbia River. And it might be a musky! lol see ya, Todd

If you wanted to do a bucket stocking program I wouldn't complain.

Dumb idea.... Why would you want Pike in the Columbia??

Bucket Biology doesn't do much good... Throwing a bass into a small backyard pond is fine, but introducing a non native fish to an enormous river system is plain stupid....

[Lucius]

Please remember, I said they only mentioned discussing rotenone as one potential option. From what I have read, a little Rotenone goes a long way. My guess is that they won't ever use it in the POR because of the fish that would be killed as casualties of their war.

Oh I know. I was just putting together some rough numbers if anybody was curious...I was and I decided to post.