kokanee fish finder/depth/gps unit

[TrackerPro16]

Huh. And I thought it was only good for one day! You mean my current set up might still work?!?! I only used it once!

[Amx]

It might work for another day. Plug it in and try.

[TrackerPro16]

[Amx]

Ya, I hate it when I forget to plug it in, or forget to switch on the main power. lol

[TrackerPro16]

I do hope you know I am kidding... I have used it often but it is a Humminbird 210 after all. Not the most detailed.

[Amx]

Oh ya, we are both kidding back and forth, make the winter more fun. lol

I'll be standing at the bow of the boat, turn on the depth finder, wait for it to start up, turn it on again, wait some more. Then have to go back to the console and turn on the main switch. Took me awhile to remember to do that on the new boat. hahaha

And then there is the main switch back in the battery compartment for the electric motor. So I don't even turn that one off anymore.

My old boat doesn't have those silly switches.

[TrackerPro16]

I installed a master cut off at the main battery a while ago after I was ready to go fishing and realized I had bumped the bilge pump switch on the day before... None of the aux switches run through the ignition switch, which surprised me. Easier to put the master cut off at the battery than wire in a relay from the ignition to the other switches. The fish finder also runs straight from the battery but it will shut off after a while.
If I do my big upgrade I will add two more batteries in the front and power everything but the outboard from there. Big 'if' though. Like I said, I am not convinced it will be worth it. I do pretty good now but there are days nothing seems to work. You can't force them to bite!

[Larry3215]

This thread caught my eye as I am considering upgrading my electronics this year. Put together my 'dream' package and it is around $5K!!! Not sure if it would be worth it. If the bite is off knowing exactly where they are would be even more frustrating! And expensive!

LOL!! You got that right! The Garmin package we got last year retailed for about $4500 plus tax. After some hard shopping on-line, I found a dealer that discounted the whole deal for about $3800. Much better price than anyone else plus free shipping.

Anyway, that was our 'dream package' because it included the new Garmin PS21 Panoptix transducer. I had argued with my bro's to go that way for months before convincing them. We all fell in love with it the first day out when I was scanning Spencer lake in about 7 ft of water and spotted something moving in the toolies about 40 ft off the starboard bow. I told my bro who was up front where to cast and how far away it was. On the screen, I could see his lure plop down a little to far, so I told him to real in slow and then stop right when he got close. My other brother and I both watched the target raise up and take the lure just as bro #1 slowed in down. We all three screamed like little girls!

However - its not all sunny days and clear weather. You're absolutely right about it being frustrating as heck when you can see the darn fish are RIGHT THERE looking at your lure and even following it half way to the boat and yet they just wont bite!!!

Sometimes I enjoy it though. When the bite is off, I quit fishing and just sit at the screen and scan around finding fish. I tell my bro's where they are and how far to cast and when they are being followed. Then, when they cant catch them, I give them all kinds of grief for being suck bad fishermen. Yes, I am the evil brother

[TrackerPro16]

There are so many nice electronics out there now. The Panoptix, the 360', I pilot link, Side Scan,,, on and on. What made you decide to go with the Panoptix?

[Larry3215]

Panoptix live forward view is not like any other sonar out there. Its like having an out of focus video camera that lets you watch fish - and your lures - in real time in any direction, all around the boat. Or maybe like a video game. They also have a live down looking Panoptix but I wont go into that one.

Regular 2D sonar, downview and sidescan sonars are all showing you history. Its already behind the boat by the time you see it on the screen. Plus, you really dont know where that fish is exactly. You might see a school of fish on sidescan that looks like its 50 ft to the port side - BUT - thats not really where it is. Its 50 ft from the transducer, NOT necessarily 50 ft to the side. It could be 3 ft to the side and 49 ft down OR it could be 3 ft down and 49 ft to the side. It will look exactly the same on the screen in either place. Regular 2D sonar is worse, but I wont go into details on that either right now.

Humminbirds 360 is basically a rotating sidescan. A lot like radar. It has the same limitations that sidescan does - you dont really know the depth/distance of the fish - just the direction. Its great for seeing structure all around the boat and schools of fish but not so hot for individual fish unless they are very large and very close. Its a scaling thing.

Panoptix live forward view shows you exactly where the fish is - the exact distance and depth and direction - all in real time. I can turn my PS21 transducer and watch a fish as it swims around and see it as it goes deeper or moves left or right or closer or further away - all as its happening. I can wqtch it as it reacts to the boat or to a lure thats passing by - or not react.

No other sonar lets you look in front of the boat - or any other direction you want - while you are trolling or sitting still, spot a fish, know exactly how deep it is, how far away and exactly which direction to cast - PLUS - you can watch your lure as it passes by the fish and see how that fish reacts to your lure - or doesnt react - all in real time as it happens. No other sonar can do what I describe in that example in my earlier post above. Not even close.

I have been able to watch schools of fish and single fish as far as 150-200 ft in front of the boat (or any other direction) while we were trolling. Ive been able to watch those fish go deep as we approached or move to the side as we got close. I can scan all aournd in front of the boat as we troll ans change direction to go towards where the fish are at that moment - before we even get close. I dont have to wait until we drive over the top of them or drive past them to see them.

No other sonar can do that. All of that in real time as it happens.

But - we wasted 20 minutes one time out on American lake chasing a school of something - probably perch - all over the place. Every time we got close they would scoot away and re-form or go deep and disappear then re-form behind us or off to one side. They did not want us closer than about 80-100 ft. A perfect example of the frustration of knowing exactly where they are and still not catching anything!

Last spring while salmon was still closed, we went out looking for cuts in the Narrows Bridge area. I spotted a school of bait fish that was huge. More than 150 ft long and 100 ft wide 60-80 feet thick that stretched from about 50 ft depth to 120 or so. No other sonar can give you all that information. I watched that school of bait fish get attacked by diving birds, seals and salmon as we drifted nearer and the school got chased towards us - all in real time. I could see a seal sitting on the surface with my eyes 100 ft away off the port bow and also see him on the screen at the same time. Then I could see him dive and watch him go down on the screen and see how the bait ball reacted as he chased the salmon that were after the bait AND watch the salmon scatter - all in real time as it happened.

I knew he was 120 ft away 20 degrees off the bow and he dove to 130 ft deep and I could watch it all as it happened.

Nothing else out there even comes close. With sales and current discounts available, you could probably get a Panoptix combo similar to mine for maybe $1500-$1800 for a 9" non-touch screen. That would also include a CHIRP 2D, side and downscan transom mount transducer.

[TrackerPro16]

I have watched most of the promo video's for most of the systems and am waiting to see if any come out with a bundle arrangement this month, which is when the last of the new stuff comes out usually.
I am pretty sure the Humminbird 360 is real time as well? Too much neat stuff!

[Larry3215]

Not the same thing at all.

360 is like looking at a still photo, then waiting 20-30 seconds for another still photo to be taken so you can look at it, then waiting another 20-30 seconds for the transducer to come around again for the next still photo. You have no clue whats going on in between scans. Also, no way can you see your lure as its moving - it just wont show up at all.

Panoptix on the other hand is live like watching a video of the fish moving around in real time - no delays, no still shots. Plus, you have the exact depth, distance and direction - also all in real time.

The 360 is exactly the same as sideview except instead of the boat moving forward to scan and draw the picture on the screen, the transducer is rotating while the picture is drawn. You cannot see fish moving in real time. You see a spot where the fish was a few seconds ago, then you have to wait till the transducer gets back around to see where it is NOW. You have no idea what it was doing in the mean time.

Plus, with 360, remember you do NOT know the true distance from the boat or depth of the target. It shows you the distance from the transducer - which s NOT the same as distance to the side of the boat. The distance from the transducer could be straight down or it could be straight out to the side or any where in between.

Also, 360 is just like sideview in that it sucks for seeing fish unless they are large and close to the boat or in a school. You will never see your lure or bait. Its great for structure though.

On the other hand, Panoptix will let you spot a single 10" trout or bass or crappie 100+ feet away and salmon to 150+ and you can see a 1oz lure out to maybe 50-60 ft. However, is not great for structure details. Panoptix is optimized for finding fish. 360 is optimized for structure. Panoptix is live and 360 is old news

[Bodofish]

The pantopix is very cool. I'm glad to see some of the super secret sonar goodies are making it to the commercial sector.
PS I've been avidly reading all your posts about it, just not sure I want to dump that kind of cash on a fish finder. Very cool one. =)

[Larry3215]

In my enthusiasm Im probably over selling it to some degree. Panoptix isnt perfect, but now that Ive got it, I dont regret the $$ one bit. I wont ever be without this tech - or what ever replaces it - in the future.

[Bodofish]

In my enthusiasm Im probably over selling it to some degree. Panoptix isnt perfect, but now that Ive got it, I dont regret the $$ one bit. I wont ever be without this tech - or what ever replaces it - in the future.

Hahahahaha, It's true, you can never go back!

[TrackerPro16]

Welllll, I was deciding whether to let this go or not, buuuut decided to go ahead and address it.
ALL sonar measures from the transducer. All send and receive raw data pretty much the same way. They are looking at the return signal and show on the screen what gets received and what gets absorbed. It is mostly a software thing in what they do with it.
The Panoptix takes its picture with its narrow pie slice facing forward with the direction facing wherever the transducer is aimed. If it is on the trolling motor you can do direction or sweep side to side to get a wide view. Sort of the same as the 360 except the 360 sweeps for you. You can narrow the beam up on the 360 and the refresh rate get's faster. The 'refresh' rate also gets faster if you shorten the distance you are looking at. ALL are 'history' as the signal has to go out and come back to refresh the data. They all show depth and distance as well as angle which tell you exactly where the fish are.
On the old units like the one on my boat the sonar 'cone' is facing straight down and is a smallish cone. I think it is what, 10 to 1? So at 70' it is only a 7' circle it is sampling. So yes, it will not tell you exactly where in the cone the fish is, but it is so small it does not really matter. It will tell you at what depth the fish is. Since the boat is moving it shows a swath of 7' wide by however many feet long it has traveled since it refreshed last. The software then put's the interpretation of the raw data on the screen.
Frequency is frequency. You can't make it send and receive any faster than the rate is. They make the software smooth out what you are looking at but the rates stay the same. It more boils down to what you want your screen to look like and what options you want on the electronics.

[Larry3215]

Sorry, no to most of that.

Panoptix is nothing like conventional sonar. Check out some of the videos and you will see what I mean.
Panoptix is multi-beam and the technology is completely different.

The Panoptix screen is NOT drawn in a linear manner like all other sonar. All conventional sonars scroll the screen as the image is drawn. The only part that gets refreshed is the first line - at the very top of the screen for down/sideview and the right side for 2D or the leading edge of the sweep for 360.

Once that top or right line is drawn, the rest of the image just moves over one pixel width. None of the rest of the screen is updated. Its the same for 360 except its done in a circle and old data gets over drawn as the sweep comes around.

The data is still "graphed" based on distance from the transducer alone - nothing else. Thats why they used to be called "graphs". The screen is very literally graphing sonar returns based ONLY on time/distance as it scrolls. The sonar - any sonar that is not multi-beam - cannot know the depth.

Panoptix on the other hand refreshes the screen just like a video screen. The entire screen is re-draw many times a second as new data comes in.

Because Panoptix is multi-beam, it does give distance AND depth data. Sideview/downview and 360 do NOT give depth - contrary to popular belief and what marketing would like you to believe.

Im not going to go back into beam widths and frequencies again, but you have some misconceptions there too

[TrackerPro16]

So we agree. To disagree. You should hit the Sportsman Shows and sell Panoptix!

[Larry3215]

I do sound like a salesman dont I? If only I could get paid for it!!!

Im good with agreeing to disagree. Its nice to be able to do that in a civil manner, so thanks for that!

However, if you have any references or links you want to post that show Im in error Im more than happy to take a look at them. I am an avid sonar geek and, although I hate being proved wrong, I love learning new things. Im quite willing to eat crow when I have to

[TrackerPro16]

No need. Panoptix is phased array, most of the others are sweep or pulse. All are good for different reasons. If I had a large boat and deep pockets I would have one of each of them from all the different manufacturers! Wouldn't that be fun?!?!