Talk me into/out of a sled

[Bscman]

I'm currently running a 12ft HarberCraft tin boat with a 9.9hp which sometimes gets swapped for an electric trolling motor.

The boat has been great for lakes...and I launch it in some sketchy places because it is so light (and has EZ loader wheels!). I've been feeling the itch to swap out to a 14-16ft for a little more room when a third wheel tags along...but lately I'm taking a liking to river fishing (Skagit).

I got my first experience in a sled last night, a 16ft Wolden w/ a 60hp jet.

Man o man! That thing really takes the worry out of running the lower skagit...which is FILLED with wood.

I've knocked my 9.9 a few times, and rubbed the sand bar a time or two...but I haven't damaged anything (yet). I keep the motor unlocked so it can tilt up if it strikes anything.

So...
I'm thinking of killing two birds with one stone here and finding a 14-16ft flattbottom with a pump...so I can have a little more stability to stand in, and also run the river with less worry.

To the point...
I've got zero experience with jet pumps...I'm assuming they are a little higher maintenance, and more $$$ to fix. Obviously, they don't manuever quite as well as a prop...especially in tight areas or low speeds...
I know a flat bottom will ride rougher, but I never see big water or high winds anyway.

What other considerations are there?

I've got a line on two different 14footers, both with a 25hp jets...both in the $2500ish range (I need to be on the water for under $4000)
Is that enough motor for a tin boat, 2 adults, and the normal gear?

I've got a 6hp I can swap out when running lakes, if needed.

[curado]

a 25 hp might be a little small a 40 or 50 would be perfect. a jet sled will slide more then a prop. more then likely you will be running a tiller handle. the sliding is alittle bit easier to control then a steering consel

[Bodofish]

It all depends on the boat and what it is rated for. A light 14 to 16, 25 hp jet is enough. Not fast but that's not what you look for in a 14 foot sled. We pack into a 15' G3 welded, two of us and a bunch of crap. We go anywhere on the Sky at any water flow with a 25 jet.

Now if you are looking for something in the 16 to 18 range in say A Wooldridge or an Aluma. You will need more because the boats are considerably heavier.

It's not appropriate for anyone to recommend engine size based on length alone. Just too many variables. The most important piece of information is the Placard. How much HP, how many/much people/weight and gross loaded weight. The best place to start is on the MFG web site and check out the specs.

[Matt]

Also, don't be fooled by those saying manuevering will be an issue. At speed jet boats are second to none in their manuevering capabilities, they just drive differently than a prop and take some getting used to. Same goes for slow speeds, it just takes some getting used to but in some cases a jet boat can be more manueverable than a keeled boat if you know what you're doing.

If you want an all around boat, get something with a v or semi v hull and at least 15 degrees up front, or it will be a very rough ride in a chop. If it will strictly be a river boat and a little lake action, go flat bottom.

As for manufacturer? Wooldridge, all the way. But what can I say, I'm biased towards them, hahah.

[Mike Carey]

I have a 15 ft Klamath with a 50HP motor, jet, which translates to 35 hp (so I was told). It's been a good boat for me, kind of a "do everything well and nothing great" type boat.

Things I like:

light weight, easy to tow and cheap to run. easy to trailer and get on/off. versitile - can be used for lakes, river, salt. enough room for two people comfortably, three, not so much. I can (and have) used this boat for all types of fishing techniques. I love being able to go in 6 inches of water with no worries of getting stuck.

Things I don't like:

thin aluminum - I've dented it a few times in the river, which has increased my anxiety factor a bit. Has a high and deep front which sometimes catches the wind a bit more than I would like.

My boat is basically what they now call the "Swimbait"

Klamath Boats

the boat I have is configured differently, but funny enough, I added a front electric trolling motor and front/back pedestal seats like Klamath did. My boat works good for bass fishing.

Do a search and I beleive you'll find some for sale in your price range on Craigs list and other places.

[hewesfisher]

Outboard pump conversions suffer a 30% loss in rated hp, so your 25hp will be the equivalent of a 17.5hp prop motor. Most boats are rated for prop hp, and unless the certification plate states otherwise, you need to keep that in mind.

[Bodofish]

Outboard pump conversions suffer a 30% loss in rated hp, so your 25hp will be the equivalent of a 17.5hp prop motor. Most boats are rated for prop hp, and unless the certification plate states otherwise, you need to keep that in mind.

Not true. The OB mfgs are rating them at the pump. Merc 25 jet is just that, it has a 30 something powerhead. Same same with Yam. the 30 has a 40 powerhead. Long gone are the days of buying the powerhead and putting the jet on it. So the 115/80 is no longer the designation. You buy an 80 hp jet and that's what it is. There is no need to figure power loss.

So lets not lead the fellow astray. If you buy an OB jet for your boat that's rated for 40hp, you can now buy that 40hp jet and not worry about insuring your boat.

[Mike Carey]

oh, I would agree with Matt - jets are a lot of fun to run and very manueverable. Not having a prop allows you to do some fun "slipping and sliding" techniques. I learned the hard way on Ohop when I first got my boat - did a 360 before I knew what hit me. Scared the crap out of me but my 7 year old just looked at me like- "let's do that again!".

[Matt]

Haha, yep, drifting and sliding gets you out of tight situations in a pinch and you can bust some very sharp turns if need be, just HOLD ON! Whenever I take someone "new" out in my sled I always do a few donuts and huge powerslides just to show them what the boat is capable of. Not yet have I left one passenger without white knuckles and a smile.

[sickbayer]

All i can say is rodeo!!!! i love my jet.

[curado]

haha matt like that conner on the snoho up the right channel

[Matt]

LOL, kinda like that, that whole run was fun! :bounce:

[curado]

i agree

[Bscman]

Thanks guys!

I'm really thinking a 16ft would be about ideal for the fishing I do...
I've been hitting classifieds/c-list hard getting ideas on what's out there...
Hafta start picking brains and looking at options at the local shops, and out on the river.

Gunna take a coworkers 14' smokercraft flat bottom for a spin sometime this week.
It's not for sale, but will give me a better idea on what a lightweight setup will ride/handle like.

[hewesfisher]

Outboard pump conversions suffer a 30% loss in rated hp, so your 25hp will be the equivalent of a 17.5hp prop motor. Most boats are rated for prop hp, and unless the certification plate states otherwise, you need to keep that in mind.

Not true. The OB mfgs are rating them at the pump. Merc 25 jet is just that, it has a 30 something powerhead. Same same with Yam. the 30 has a 40 powerhead. Long gone are the days of buying the powerhead and putting the jet on it. So the 115/80 is no longer the designation. You buy an 80 hp jet and that's what it is. There is no need to figure power loss.

So lets not lead the fellow astray. If you buy an OB jet for your boat that's rated for 40hp, you can now buy that 40hp jet and not worry about insuring your boat.

True for an outboard jet rated as such, but not so if you have a prop motor and then convert it to a jet. You will experience a 30% loss in rated hp.

[Bodofish]

Who is talking about a conversion?

[hewesfisher]

Who is talking about a conversion?

I've got a line on two different 14footers, both with a 25hp jets...both in the $2500ish range (I need to be on the water for under $4000)

Guess you read more in his post than I did. How do you know from what he posted that those 25s aren't simply converted prop motors?

Interesting to note that Merc rates their 25hp jet in prop hp. See for yourself - http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/je ... outboards/ If you read the spec sheet for the prop version you'll see the same numbers. Both versions are rated in prop hp and there's no way a 25hp motor is rated equal for prop and jet.

Yamaha, on the other hand, uses a 40hp motor to make a 30hp jet. Yet the same motor (an F40) is rated for 40 prop hp. That's a 25% decrease in hp for the jet foot vs prop. The fact that Yamaha does the conversion at the factory doesn't negate the loss.

My point was and still is, converting a prop motor to jet results in hp loss. Whether the conversion is done at the factory on a higher hp motor and then derated for the jet or done in your garage doesn't change a thing. To get a true 25hp at the jet/pump requires more than a 25hp outboard.

For Bscman's sake, I was simply pointing out the loss associated with the jet/pump. I did not "assume" the unknown motors were rated in true jet hp.

[Bodofish]

Who is talking about a conversion?

I've got a line on two different 14footers, both with a 25hp jets...both in the $2500ish range (I need to be on the water for under $4000)

Guess you read more in his post than I did. How do you know from what he posted that those 25s aren't simply converted prop motors?

I don't think I'm the one reading things into the statements. I'm taking his at face value, nothing was said about doing any conversions, He found two 25hp jet boats in the $2500ish range. Sorry but I don't where the conversion is coming from.


Interesting to note that Merc rates their 25hp jet in prop hp. See for yourself - http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/je ... outboards/ If you read the spec sheet for the prop version you'll see the same numbers. Both versions are rated in prop hp and there's no way a 25hp motor is rated equal for prop and jet.

I can see how that would be confusing. The motor is rated at 25p prop, to say it's the same as a 25hp prop. I was confused by that too until I queried Merc about it. The question went all the way to their R&D dept. And yes, a quick look at the specs the 25hp motors would look the same, but they also look the same as the 30 as they share the same block. So I'm back to the 25 jet uses the 30ish power head, giving it 25 hp at the jet.
PS I went through spec sheet hell with a buddy for 6 mos while he was deciding to buy a Merc or a Yam. The boat could be insured with the 25 Merc but not the Yam. Lots of calls and emails to Merc.

Yamaha, on the other hand, uses a 40hp motor to make a 30hp jet. Yet the same motor (an F40) is rated for 40 prop hp. That's a 25% decrease in hp for the jet foot vs prop. The fact that Yamaha does the conversion at the factory doesn't negate the loss.

Yes they tell you right up front just like I said, 40 power head to make 30 jet.

My point was and still is, converting a prop motor to jet results in hp loss. Whether the conversion is done at the factory on a higher hp motor and then derated for the jet or done in your garage doesn't change a thing. To get a true 25hp at the jet/pump requires more than a 25hp outboard.

Old news nothing has changed since the inception of the OB jet. Fact, all the jet units are made by one MFG. Outboard Jet Corp. They sell the lower units to the OB MFG. Outboard Jet

For Bscman's sake, I was simply pointing out the loss associated with the jet/pump. I did not "assume" the unknown motors were rated in true jet hp.


Understood, I'm not sure the power loss is a concern when he's talking about running the Skagit system. The lower 1/8 is alright with a prop if you're careful, the rest has spots that run from a foot to zero inches. A jet is a must.

You could be running some of those awesome rivers in your neck of the woods with a little conversion.....