No More Stocking

[racfish]

I heard in the news that the State of Wa. isnt gonna re-stock the Alpine lakes with trout anymore.They say the trout are ruining the water conditions.Anyone else hear this?

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

Don't confuse the alpine lakes with the North Cascades National Park. That's were the stoppage of stocking is proposed.

[racfish]

Thanks Zen for the clarification.

[gian]

i'm glad it's not the alpines. I just bought a new pack rod

[Gamefisher]

This like is to a link to the article in the Sun 4-21-09 http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/apr/ ... ials-want/

[fishingboy]

is that true?:-# i never heard about this!

[The Quadfather]

Kind of a weird article if you aske me. Go read the link... it is all about how the non-native fish are ruining the habitat.

"North Cascades National Park officials plan to stop volunteers from stocking alpine lakes in the park with trout fry they pack in on their backs. The fish are not native to the lakes and therefore don't belong there, according to the park service."

Were talking about mostly rainbow trout. whadya mean non native?
If it is about not having the budget anymore then just say that. Also the article mentions how we remove two dams on the Elwha to help preserve fish runs,, but then now were concerned about these pesky trout.

[The Quadfather]

Congressman Doc Hastings has introduced legislation in the House of Representatives that would allow continued fish stocking in the North Cascades National Park.

The new bill is designated H.R. 2430 and is cosponsored by Respresentatives Brian Baird, Norm Dicks, Rick Larsen, Cathy McMorris Rogers and Adam Smith. These are the same co-sponsors of the bill that was approved by the House last year.

The press release about the bill as available on Doc Hastings website.

Currently the bill is before the House Natural Resources committee. The next step, which is being worked on, is to secure a hearing before the committee.

More information on the bill, including it's current status is available on Thomas.gov. Do a search on H.R. 2430 to find the bill.

Hopefully, the bill will be approved and fish stocking will continue within the North Cascades National Park Complex.

[tommytitan08]

I think this is what you guys are talking about, this was in the Tacoma News Tribune Paper today.



North cascades fishing may end
parks: Plan to preserve wilderness upsets avid anglers

WASHINGTON – The mountain lakes in the backcountry of Washington state’s North Cascades National Park still are covered in ice. The thaw usually doesn’t come until early July. This year, however, a deadline comes along with the thaw.

Unless Congress acts, the lakes won’t be stocked by volunteers racing through the wilderness with 5-gallon plastic containers of rainbow, cutthroat and golden trout strapped on their backs.

The North Cascades is the only national park where fish still are planted. The lakes, many carved out by glaciers, didn’t have fish in them until the planting started roughly a century ago.

National Park Service rules prohibit the introduction of non-native species, and it will start enforcing them July 1 in the North Cascades.

“We are the last park,” said Chip Jenkins, the park’s superintendent. “If we are to continue to do something unique, Congress will have to authorize it.”

The dispute is just the latest flash point in the broader debate between those who think that the national parks and wilderness should remain pristine and untouched by humans and those who think that increased recreational opportunities should be allowed as long as they don’t harm the environment.

Washington state Rep. Doc Hastings, the top Republican on the House Natural Resources Committee, has introduced legislation to allow planting in the North Cascades to continue. He has support from virtually all the state’s delegation in the House of Representatives, including leading Democrats. Hastings said he hoped that his bill would pass the full House in the week after Congress returned from its Memorial Day recess. Similar legislation passed the House last year but went nowhere in the Senate.

Though Hastings said Washington state’s senators, Democrats Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, supported his measure, they haven’t introduced a companion bill in the Senate. Murray’s and Cantwell’s offices declined to comment. Cantwell is a member of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, which would have jurisdiction.

“If the (July 1) deadline helps pass it, I have no trouble with that,” Hastings said, “but the problem in the Senate is finding time to do it. Maybe the deadline will help with that.”

The controversy has been brewing since the park was created in 1968.

The park complex, which straddles the Cascades along the Canadian border north of Seattle, includes the Ross Lake National Recreation Area and the Lake Chelan National Recreation Area. The lakes aren’t sterile and contain phytoplankton, zooplankton, aquatic insects and amphibians. They were naturally fishless because fish couldn’t migrate up the rugged streams that serve as the outlets for the lakes. Today, 1,000 to 1,500 people fish the lakes regularly.

Sandy McKean, a past president of Washington Trail Blazers, a group that supports alpine fishing, has hauled fish to the lakes in the North Cascades for 15 years.

McKean said the National Park Service set the July 1 deadline because it was worried it might get sued if the planting continued without congressional authorization. He added that the national parks are filled with trails and people climb rocks, gather mushrooms, view birds and wildflowers, and ride horses.

“I heard one person say a fish rising on a lake spoiled his wilderness experience,” McKean said. “You could put a fence up around the park with a sign that says ‘Humans Keep Out,’ but no one wants that.”

Opponents said McKean and his group are “elite” fishermen and the park service ought to ban the stocking program outright.

“This is a national park,” said Dave Fluharty, a board member of the North Cascades Conservation Council. “There are 400 other lakes they could be fishing in.”

Backers of fish planting said that in congressional testimony when the park was being authorized, the park service director at the time, George Hartzog, promised that the stocking program would continue. Jenkins and others said the record is far from definitive and that Hartzog said different things at different times.

The planting was allowed to continue until 1988, when new park service policies banned the planting of non-native species. Planting was allowed to continue in the North Cascades while the park service conducted an environmental review and came up with a management plan for the lakes.

Twenty years later, researchers concluded that planted fish could harm aquatic organisms, but that if low numbers of fish that can’t reproduce were planted the ecological effects would be undetectable.

Les Blumenthal: 202-383-0008

lblumenthal@mcclatchydc.com

[swedefish4life1]

Horse backed and hiked all over the North Cascades Range for many many year mostly hunting, camping and chasing cutts.

If its a long colder spring and they can be the much higher lakes/systems retain ice much longer then 2 or 3 months could support!:-$

I want all apline lakes covered with fish:chef: but it has been as late as early July a few rides we hit the snowlines and had to walk are animals for safety.

A bigger bust we always had one of my lead upland bird dogs:cheers: on lead on these 3 and 4 day adventures for camp Bear:-$ and Cougar awareness programs they restricked the heck out of that as well and a remote alpine camp without a great gun dog is a sitting duck at night on scent and prey!:batman:

We took many young youth groups on these great journeys as well Heaven on earth and guys do Spider Mountains RIGHT NOW!!! Alpine Alps of the Pacific NW!!!! :thumleft: =d> :viking:

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“I heard one person say a fish rising on a lake spoiled his wilderness experience,” McKean said

Really? Must be a city slicker....

[swedefish4life1]

Thats why we always bring guns:bom: cut out the weak ones!#-o

[Bodofish]

As much as it means no fishing and we all know how we feel about that. There has been some pretty darn hard study and thought that's gone into the decision. This is not just a money thing. It has been found that introducing voracious predators into an eco system, especially a fragile one can do an extreme amount of harm.
In most alpine lakes there were no trout, it's just impossible for them to swim up hundred plus foot waterfalls. So we, being the top of the food chain decided we wanted more fun so we dumped our food and fun into the alpine lakes. Well this has started a cascading effect (no pun intended). The major predator was the frog (in the lake). We introduce trout and the frogs instantly have competition for the top spot and their food. In addition the trout eat their young. The food that the frogs became while hanging out at the shoreline has diminished and the small mammals in turn had to turn their hunting skills elsewhere. Sounds pretty simple doesn't it? Not so, as the tadpoles got eaten by the trout, they the tadpoles were not eating the usual amounts of various algae blooms that fed other types of lesser life forms, fungi’s, ameba’s and such which can be harmful to other species, including man. As the streams carry these little guy's down stream in numbers never seen before they begin to affect everything down stream as well. A fungus that's poisonous to frogs is swept down stream, killing frogs along the way. Other forms attaching to salmon eggs or smolts (probably effects the Bass too). Still other parasites presenting themselves in the water, providing gastrointestinal entertainment for us, our pets and the native inhabitants.
Granted this has taken many years to become evident but it's rearing it's ugly head none the less. Who would have thought that a few trout dumped into an alpine lake could cause such trouble.
Just a small glimpse, something to think about.

[wolverine]

All that I can add is to say that after hiking uphill for miles to a lake I'd darn rather fish and eat trout than a frog!

[Bodofish]

Me too but, I think you miss the point. We've upset the eco system to a far greater extent than just putting fish in lakes. The effects are felt far down stream from where the the actual planting has occured.

[swedefish4life1]

Bodofish:cheers: but large frog legs taste like chicken:chef:

[kavykid2k6]

even if this dont pass there is still gonna be people hauling fish up there to plant. as long as they dont ban that also

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

All that I can add is to say that after hiking uphill for miles to a lake I'd darn rather fish and eat trout than a frog!

For me, it depends on the size of the frog!