Floods and rains

[littleriver]

Alright.... Satsop down to 4500cfs today.. probably won't be to my target 2,000 by monday.... I think we're looking at Tuesday.


But I think mallard has alluded to the proper way to deal with these rivers. Sounds like he focuses on the skykomish river system and knows it well.. (And, by the way mallard, I apologize again for being huffy about the sultan river stuff... I think I was having a senior moment.. when I typed that info, in my mind, it was 1986 again and I totally neglected to note that the information I was relaying was 2 decades old... old people do that kind of thing from time to time)...


anyways, for you newbies who haven't fished the rivers too much you should be trying to establish conversations with people who know and fish on a regular basis the rivers and streams that are close to where you live. Hence, if you live near the sky and you want to learn how to fish it you should be pm'ing someone like mallard. He seems to have good knowledge there. Scout the water for access during off season and find out as much about the character of the water as you can from the guys who fish them regularly... there are no copycat streams in this state. Every one has it's own personality and the best strategy is to pick a few that are close to where you live and learn them well. For winter run fish (mostly steelhead and coho) you are always going to be dealing with the issue of high water because heavy rain comes part and parcel with living in this state.

Go check out the access spots at various flow levels and learn how to picture what the portions of the river you want to fish look like at various flow rates as presented on the various web sites that give real time flow information. I use the USGS site but I understand there are other sources. I think that "being on the river at the right time" is the most important factor in winter fishing. The fish move into fresh water when the rivers are high and as the levels drop all the holes and runs will be filled with fresh fish. The fish, though, are moving up all the time it's just that the high water creates surges that make them easier to catch. Get to the holes too soon and the water will still be too high. Get to the holes too late and other sporties will have already been there and stirred up the pot making the fish hard to catch.

A river is "ready for plucking" at sunup of the day that the level drops to the level you feel comfortable fishing it. If you have to take a day of vacation from work to get out there and participate then I think that this is the kind of opportunity that makes it worth taking that day. I used to anyways.

[littleriver]

Holy cow... Nooch (wynoochee) is at 2800cfs right now. It went up to 10k earlier this week and held solid for a couple of days.

Because of that I thought it would come down very slowly. Not true. It's dropping faster than the satsop. There's a dam on the nooch and flows are a function of what dam managers want them to be. On the satsop flows are what the river feels like giving you. No dams. No human control.


At 1500 cfs the nooch is an incredibly beautiful river to float. The flow rates are reasonable and the runs, riffes, and pools just look and feel right. I think it's going to hit 1,500 on Monday and that all the holes are going to have fresh winter runs in them. Guides are probably looking at the same info I am and know the river much better than me so one should expect to see other fishermen on the water, but I'm predicting that next Monday and Tuesday are going to be banner fishing days on the nooch.

[Fish Antics]

littlrriver wrote "That's called "managing forests for timber harvest" not deforestation.

Deforestation is what you see up in seattle. It's where forests were cut down and replaced with highways and houses and skyscrapers. By the way, most of the "so called" intellects who write emotionally about this kind of stuff live in places like Seattle, not places like Satsop or the Boisfort valley."
[/quote]


Ouch littleriver!!! . . . just got back and had to comment on behalf of legions of ghost fish . . I know what you are saying . . .but deforestation is a powerful word that has been well earned in Western Washington. If we zoom out and look at our western drainages the word deforestation fits better than Managing Forests for Timber Harvest (vs Fish Preservation or Enhancement ). .I wandered around the Olympic Penninsula and Southwest Washington in the early 80's and anyone who lived out that way knows of the clearcut landscape that went on for countless miles in every direction. It was much like what happened on the off-shore Washington coast where the offshore bottom was divided into quadrants and commercial draggers made pass after pass systematically over the transects (in the 70's) harvesting fish, leaving a barren wake of devastated populations behind them - essentially until we had pretty much harvested the bulk of the populations off of the entire coast of W. Washington. It wasn't until the damage was done that we realized how much time in years it took to grow a five pound rockfish that we stopped the practice. Protected. . . stocks have been building back. The correlation is with what happened to offshore stocks and the overall effect of logging practices on streams in watersheds in Washington. As we all know, timber practices are much more controlled for impacts today. And yes, you can site areas of healthy timber . . just as you can find pockets of bottom fish.

I just wanted to throw my two cents in for those fish lost to "Managing Fish for Timber Harvest not deforestation" - rather than accept a definition that deforestation has been restricted to Seattle or places where highways are built.

I am just responding to the things I saw as I floated the Hoh River and looked at the token three-tree-blowdown-riparian zone left along river banks back then, as if it made much of a difference.

And I agree with littleriver's assessment of river flows in the rivers he presents, high probability streams to target, and his focus on fishing for today.

my regards'

Micro

ps Just so you know . .I don't live in Seattle!

[littleriver]

Good points micro and I understand what you are saying, but the trees are there. They certainly arn't old growth and there are areas where you can see that large sections were harvested and then replanted but you can still see a lot of trees.. it's just that some of them are kind of small...

I do a lot of driving around the "lower" (when I say lower I mean in regard to "elevation" not north south stuf) and all I see is trees. Certainly not all of it is old growth, but it's trees in every direction. I do some hiking in the higher elevations and once again I have to hike a long ways to get out of the trees. I also do a lot of hiking in the Mt. St. Helens monument area and there I don't see a lot of trees. That, I think, can be called "deforestation". Environmentalists respond to that form of deforestation by saying that no trees should be planted. The area must be kept in it's original pristine condition. Somehow trees are important. Trees are vital everywhere else, but they don't matter when you cross the boundary into the monument.

No question that the trawlers pretty much destroyed the off shore bottom fishing. I think their day is over though and hopefully the stocks will rebuild. But that doesn't keep me from getting very angry at WDFW when I read the area 1 thru 4 regs and they go into great detail how you can't fish certain areas or past the 15 fathom line for bottomfish. That this reg is in effect to protect endangered stocks of yelloweyes, etc., etc. What a bunch of blather. WDFW allowed the trawlers to devastate the resource for decades and when all the fish were gone they added restrictions to the sport fishing rules as if it was our fault the resource was lost....

It's tough to see the bottomfish but, in my mind, there are a heck of a lot more trees on the olympic peninsula than there are bottomfish in the offshore waters now.

[Fish Antics]

You make great points littleriver. Who would have guessed it would take 15 -20 years for those rockfish to grow to sexual maturity. And it does seem that restoration has fallen on the shoulders of sportsmen - we're left holding the smokin' gun!

As I think about restoration efforts I am reminded of early efforts to rebuild the lingcod populations in southern Puget Sound - the juvenile "donors" were transplanted from reefs in the Strait around Port Angeles. To track survival and assess success the lingcod were tagged. To everyone's surprise the juveniles migrated back to their original specific habitat in the Straits. So it seems that we still have a lot to learn about these critters, but underscores the importance of understanding the habits of the fish we pursue.

So did littleriver and the rest get out yesterday to fish?

[A9]

I'll be trying to head out somewhere nearby in the coming week...

Sky most likely, maybe up to the Stilly or something...

[Fish Antics]

We have some snow coming down out the window, Sam . . . nothing quite like fishing in the snow. I remember the "good old days," when I got out out there on the water regardless of conditions to catch fish, despite the water freezing in the guides on the rod :bigsmurf: I'm embarrassed to say I find it easier to whine!

I'll watch for your post!!! Be sure to post if you catch something so I can whine even louder!

[littleriver]

It was snowing and I don't like going out in the snow but the football games were boring so I headed out, sans fishing rods, to check out the satsop. Not sure why I've been so obsessed with the satsop the last couple of years but I think it's because it's just such an incredibly beautiful river in the summer when it's low. Clear water, soft riffles, and inviting pools. It can turn into a monster after a hard november rain though.


It's running about 4,000 cfs right now and the lower river is a reasonably unopaque green. the upper river, above where the west fork comes in is pretty clear. I mean a lot more clear than I thought it would be at this level. It still looks high and difficult to fish though. There was a jet boat anchored and plunking under the hwy 8 bridge and a drift boat trailer parked at the access on the west fork about 3 or 4 miles up from the highway. The most interesting thing I noted was a couple of miles further upstream where the west satsop road goes over Smith Creek. Smith creek enters the east fork of the satsop a half mile or so below the bridge at shaeffer park. Smith creek is running high, but clear, and there were two vehicles parked along the shoulder just past the bridge. One vehicle had an empty drift boat trailer behind it. I stopped and looked at the ground between the vehicles and the river and there was a rough path that was probably used by the sporties to carry the driftboat the 20 or 30 yards between the shore of smith creek and where the vehicles were parked. When you see stuff like this along a river during "fish run" time you know you've found evidence of a local who has figured out a pattern. These guys have probably been doing this very same thing for years and catching lots of fish. These were the vehicles of the people who, unlike me, know how to fish this river.


Would be interesting to catch up with one of these guys sometime and sort of pick his brain a little.


Anyways, it was an interesting experience. I had been thinking that you need to go down to 2,000 cfs to fish this river but now I'm moving up the target a bit. The river bottom was still a bit too "full" for my preferences but it was definitely fishable, at least using plunking techniques.

Overall though the water was still high enough to prevent me from accessing the holes I really want to fish via wade and cast methods and definitely too fast for me to feel comfortable in my drift boat. Even worse, it looks like the level has sort of flatlined and is going to hold in the high 3,000s for several more days......

Oh well... Time for plan B. Will probably hit the run below the hatcher discharge at blue creek on the cowlitz for an hour or so the next couple of mornings. It's only a 4 or 5 minute drive from my house and it's just so darned dependable.

Oh yeah... As I drove along the satsop river I watched the forests very carefully and am happy to report that I observed no signs of 'deforestation'.

whew.. I was starting to get worried.

[Fish Antics]

littleriver. .thanks for scouting out the Satsop and sharing. You're right . .there's always the Cowlitz.

Are you sure you weren't passing Christmas Tree sales yards! (Couldn't let your last two lines squeeze past without a little humor- -sort of like having to have that one last cast)

micro

[littleriver]

Actually there were a couple of christmas tree farms but no trees for sale.

I think what I'm going to do with the satsop is to just start fishing it with my fly rod during the summer months.

There's probably some src's that come tromping through in August and September and a day of whipping the dry fly around on that river would be quite enjoyable even though all the fish will have to be released.


Cowlitz is down to 9,000cfs below mayfield. That's a bit high for my tastes but the water has cleared up considerably. Still some color to it but nothing like it was a few days back. Flows peaked out at 14,000cfs on wed or thurs and that should have been enough to call in a few winter runs. I'm sure it will be crowded there tomorrow, but that seems to be one of the prices one has to pay for a good day of fishing in this state.

Oh yeah. While I'm talking about the Cowlitz, I'm hearing rumors from the locals that WDFW has been scouting near the bridge over the cowlitz at the town of toledo for the purpose of putting in a new ramp.


The Cow is a popular river that, IMHO anyways, needs a few more ramps. I should also note that the Cow has summer and winter steelhead runs, a fall coho run, and a spring and fall chinook run. Over the years all the sporties have gradually figured out that the best place to catch returning fish is to be as close to the hatchery inlets as possible. This has led to intense crowding on certain portions of the river while other portions rarely see an angler. In order to try and spread the sport fishing effort over more of the river managers are trying out some new techniques that involve "homing" the fish to portions of the river away from the hatchery inlets. One of those places, for chinook anyways, will be right across the river and half mile or so upstream from the toledo bridge.

I recall someone telling me a couple of years back that the first brood of chinook smolt that would "home" to the toledo location was released back then. All this information would need to be verified but I feel certain enough of it's accuracy to post it here. For those who live outside the local area and who like to visit and fish the cowlitz from time to time these little tidbits are something to watch for and/or ask local bait shop owners about when you stop to pick up shrimp. I like the idea of spreading the returns out over more of the river and applaud WDFW efforts in that regard if in fact these efforts turn out to be successful. If the programs are not successful then I will deal with that when I have confirmed that information to be reliable and true.


And here are a couple of more tips for those who like to visit the area for the purpose of fishing the cowlitz.

1. There is a local advertising print paper called the "highway shopper".. They maintain current reports at www.highwayshopper.com/recrpt.html

Go down to the section entitled "Mossyrock/Salkum/Ethel" and the first couple of reports are from "Fish Country Sports" and the
"barrier dam campground". Fish country sports is the one on the right a mile or so before you get to salkum. This isn't a real sophisticated page. When the link ends in "html" it means they are hardtyping the reports in as raw html. Kind of an archaic practice, but it seems to work for them. These two reports give you reasonably accurate and reasonably current information about how fishing is at blue creek and at the barrier dam near the salmon hatchery.


2. I used to think that the best of all best places to buy good sand shrimp was at Fish country. These guys sell a lot of bait and that should mean that you'll get the freshest and the best bait from them. Welllllll. It turns out that this isn't necessarily true. The sand shrimp delivery guy comes around on Monday's and Thursdays and the same guy delivers to all the quick stops that sell bait along with the bait shops. So wherever you go to get shrimp in the area it will be fresh if you buy it Monday afternoon or Thursday afternoon after the new delivery has arrived. I used to use that as a competitive advantage a few years back when I was still using shrimp. I've stopped using bait to catch fish here but for those who like to use sand shrimp that might be some useful information. If you visit on monday afternoon (after the delivery) or tuesday or thursday afternoon (after the delivery) or friday you can pretty much buy the shrimp anywhere. It will be fresh. If you show up any other time, stick with the established bait shops like "Fish Country" because they take a lot more care with the product. If you show up to fish Monday mornings or thursday mornings and stop to buy bait at any old quick stop then you will want to see how the refridgerator is stocked. If there are lots of containers of shrimp they were no doubt just delivered and are fresh. If there's only one or two at the bottom of the refer then they have probably been sitting there for a few days.

Nothing more annoying than getting your boat out to the fishing hole and then opening up the shrimp container only to find yourself staring at a bunch of blackened, shriveled up, stinky old sand shrimp.

[A9]

Shane if you are still out there I asked you to expand more on what you say is an increasing number of "fish" in the past 20 years....I'd really like to hear you back up that statement if you could cause I know a lot disagree with it....

Nothing personal but you said you knew a lot about it so I'd like to hear more..

[littleriver]

Had a little free time this afternoon so I made the 5 minute run from my house to blue creek and it was interesting.

There were about 9 or 10 vehicles without trailers and maybe 6 with. Only 3 or 4 boats were visible working the drifts though.

For those who haven't been to blue creek for a few years there were some major mods last winter. The hatchery outlet doesn't go out to blue creek anymore. It's been routed to a concrete bunker (big culvert) that's located about 100' west of the ramp. It is only legal for bonafide handcapped types to fish within 100 feet of the outlet. Everyone else, including boats has to stay at least 100 feet away from the bunker. Trail goes right to the bunker and then down stream. Flows are still close to 10,000 cfs so river is high and water clarity is roughly a foot so it's cleaning up. I walked downstream about 1/4 mile and notice several good spots to access the river that were unoccupied and then came into a large opening where there were 4 or 5 shorebound sporties drifting red corky/yarn rigs. One of them had just landed a 7 or 8 pound class steehead and at the same time I saw two others walking up river toward the parking area, one was holding another 7 or 8 pound class fish and the other a really nice 14 pound class steelhead. All the fish were very bright.

As I walked back and approached the ramp there was a boat pulling out of the water and though I didn't ask anyone if they had caught fish sporties carry themselves in a certain way and talk a certain way when they have had a successful day. They have slightly different mannerisms when they come back with empty coolers. These guys acted like there was something good to eat in the coolers.


Bottom line... it looks like there are some fresh fish to be had at blue creek. They are readily accessible to the shorebound sporty but I'm sure the word will get out in the next couple of days and the place is going to be a zoo on Sat. and Sunday.
Those interested in participating may want to finagle some way to get out there before the weekend.

[littleriver]

I know the "Message" at the top of the page says to enter fishing reports in the reports section but I've tried many times to enter reports on this site only to have them kicked back and not accepted. Had sort of given up for many months but tried again today to enter a report for my day on the cowlitz at blue creek and the system just wouldn't allow me to enter a river name and without a river name it would not accept the report. Very frustrating. Software developer lingo for what's going on is "Data Integrity". You write a whole bunch of rules to assure that all the data is valid, but if you go overboard it becomes impossible to enter anything at all.


Anyways, I'm not supposed to enter this information here but it's the only place that works.




There are lots, and lots of winter runs moving into the Cowlitz right now. Lots of sporties working the runs and it isn't a fish every cast but I spent most of the day today down at Blue Creek. I didn't catch anything but watched at least a dozen fish landed and I'm sure that was just a small percentage of what went into the coolers.


At least 2 dozen guides working the blue creek pool and another 2 dozen shorebound fishermen.


I should probably note (for those who haven't fished blue creek for a year or so) that the fishing environment at here changed drastically this year. They have rerouted the hatchery flow from going directly into blue creek upstream to a bunker that's about 100 feet downstream of the boat ramp. It's illegal for anyone to fish right at the bunker who isn't handicapped. You can watch the fish moving into the bunker and up into the hatchery. There are a bunch of them moving right now.

This flow change has totally changed the blue creek experience. Instead of having to fish below the blue creek inlet the best fishing is now in the pool where the ramp is located. You actually don't even need a jet boat. I saw 2 boats with "prop outboards" working the pool and, as long as you don't want to go up or downstream this is all that's needed.

I'll keep trying on the reports page but thought I would get this information out for those who might be interested.

[A9]

I drove up I-5 and then hooked a left to go eastbound on SR 542 to head up to Mt. Baker to ski. Drove over a lot of rivers on my way up I-5....Snoh, Stilly, Skagit, Samish, they all looked really fishy, and then going up 542 I got a bunch of glimpses at the Nooksack and the North Fork further up, and about a dozen small streams that all look like they would hold some steelhead..I saw about 4 guys working the Nook on the way home from skiing...

[Toni]

Sam, you should have stopped to throw in a line at every river. Then give us a report.
It could become like some new marathon or triathlon. Fish a bunch of rivers then go to the top of the Mountain (ski run) ski down to a wi fi area and post a report! :thumright

[A9]

The best looking water was the Nook and Stilly by far...The Nook is a ways up there from home, the Stilly is a manageable 50 minute drive with no traffic...Might have to go get a few jigs and floats to fish this low water....

[littleriver]

Good report Sam. I strongly suspect that what's happening at blue creek is being repeated on all these rivers.

For those who've always wanted to catch a steelhead but never knew exactly when to go, I think this weekend would be as good as any.

Pick a river with hatchery fish though. Typically the wild ones don't start trickling in for another month or so.


But it looks like it's going to be a strong year class on the Cow. They are even picking up a bunch of steelhead at the salmon hatchery separator operations 6 miles upstream of the blue creek trout hatchery. Theoretically the trout should stop at the blue creek hatchery outflow, but a few always get confused and go too far.

[littleriver]

OK... gotta eat a little humble pie.

I've been sort of making fun of the "deforestation" guys but their concerns are not totally invalid.



There was a picture in the local newspaper of a large hill in the willapa hills that's owned by Weyerhauser.



This hill is on weyerhauser land near one of the Chehalis River tributaries. And, I mean, this sucker was "clear cut"...

an excellent example of what I call "localized deforestation"....... and probably one of the reasons the chehalis river is still running with a very opaque chocolate color.....


A picture of the hill was included in a recent edition of the Seattle Times and Weyerhauser is taking some heat for what they did there......


As well they should.



I mean, it would have been so simple to just take horizontal stripss around the hill.. Why the heck did they have to clear cut the entire mountain.



Anyways, the state is reviewing weyerhauser practices even though the state approved the cut (am I smelling a payoff or something like that).....


but, anyways, I still support managed forests (e.g. I think it's ok to cut down trees as long as it's done in a responsible manner), but Weyerhauser needs to get it's act together and start practicing what it preaches.